As confident as I was writing that last post, I have to be honest and admit that there are days I’m tempted to step closer to the line to see how strong I am. (Quit smirking Daniel!) 
I don’t, but I’m tempted to. I simply refuse to go there.
JB, I don’t think I agree with Permahonee on this one. Mine is an assumption ofcourse, but I’m pretty sure that my guy friends aren’t thinking about sex when we talk or email. The thought actually repulses me a bit. Not that my guy friends aren’t attractive, loving men – but eeewwww!
I wanted to address the “clicking” that happens sometimes between friends. There are a few men in my life that I connect with on a deep level. The first is my husband ofcourse. For the purpose of this discussion – he’s not a part of it. There isn’t another human on the planet I connect with like I do with him! With one guy friend I can discuss things that Benny isn’t interested in or knowlegeable about. One is a fairly new friend, but we are of like mind and spirit though most of our interests are worlds apart. One is my brother – literally – we share the same mother, so there’s no mystery as to the deep connection there. And one is a friend from my past – even he called us “soul mates” on his blog when talking about the time we met and became friends. There is also Tim and Kevin – my best friends from High School and College. I have connected with all of these men and only been attracted to one of them – that was high school and Tim and I never liked each other at the same time. End of story. HE is the only one I was tempted to make a move past friendship with. It would have been perfectly “legal”. I was a teenager and years away from marriage at that point. But it never happened.
What is it that draws two people together? As I’ve stated – it was something different with each of the guys listed. All of these men are men of faith. Is it Christ in me that draws me to Christ in them? All of them took an interest in me in a respectful way. Did that gain them my respect as well? All of them were/are protective of me and who I am – they have my back. Is it my gratitude and trust that fuels my part of the friendship?
How many times have I seen a girl easily fall for a guy that was nice to her or gave her positive attention? What is it that keeps me from doing the same? Boundaries. I liked what J said about not letting himself even think of his friends that are girls in a non-sisterly way. Taking every thought captive…so wise. It’s our minds…our thought lives that wreak havoc on our relationships. I believe if we can keep that part pure…the body follows.
One of my best friends lost her husband to an affair with an ex-girlfriend. She would strongly disagree with me on this topic and say that men and women should not and can not be friends if either or both are married. I can remember the time I would have agreed with her. She can not trust in that area at this point in her life. Mixed gender frienships change when marriage is part of the relationship. Like I said in the last post…you don’t want to cause jealousy or exclusion with your spouse – so friendships can get tricky. I stand by my boundaries list.
God gave each of us a conscience – we know what is right and wrong and we know when we are violating that notion. We can’t kid ourselves or others for very long.
October 9, 2006 at 2:50 pm |
Wow, Niki, I am really sorry to hear about your friend. It is sad that she has let that situation give her such a legalistic attitude about inter-gender friendships. That’d be like saying no one should ever drink because my sister-in-law was killed by a drunk driver. Sadly, I’ve known people who have held that opinion too.
I think I am more geared to female friendships because I was always closer to my mom and very distant from my dad and brothers growing up. That has had both positive and negative consequences on me.
What drew me to my friendship with Niki is that she is a genuine person. There is nothing phony about who she is. And she is totally down to earth. We are like minded on many issues, and tend to care about the same things.
You are right on every point Niki. One I would mention, that mixed gender friendships do change when you get married. It is harder for me to develop friendships than when I was single. Most women I have met have a certain level of discomfort of being my friend since I am married, so they avoid it. On the other hand, I don’t tend to make many, if any, guy friends, so I don’t tend to hang out or spend time with many people. It is a difficult dynamic to know how to overcome. Add to that, most guys I know seem to have an aversion to spending time with another as friends if his wife isn’t friends with my wife. I don’t know what is up with that. It almost seems to be an unspoken rule.
October 10, 2006 at 5:10 am |
Of course, I am not a sexologist or whatever–but I suppose my point is this–men think about s*x much more than women–and I do believe God will aid them in controlling their thoughts if they surrender those thoughts to Him–but I still maintain when a woman enters a *friendship* with a man she should be aware of this fact. Or do you all even agree this is correct?
October 10, 2006 at 9:18 am |
Jared: I hear you, bro. While women seem easily able to just get together for a coffee or a chat, guys usually need to find “an excuse”. Great friendships are built on regular contact, something that is difficult for guys to share in the absence of a regularly shared (usually purposeful) activity. Maybe that’s why fraternal organisations developed.
We tend to attract that which we think about. If we live in fear, we’ll tend to notice things to support our fears and train others to violate those fears. If you approach a platonic relationship with an appreciation of the other person as a spiritual being, respect for them as an individual, and the love for them due to another human being, the choice to move that towards a romantic outcome is your own.
Love is not lost to ‘another woman’ or ‘another man’: it is lost to fear, insecurity and lack of real intimacy… the weakness already in the relationship provided the nourishment for the seeds of discontent. With great love, Niki’s friend might think that she lost him to an ex-girlfriend, but I question whether she really ‘had’ him in the first place… With great respect and in ignorance of the other party, perhaps she forgot that the wedding is just the start of the marriage.
October 10, 2006 at 2:43 pm |
JettyBetty, I think you are right, to a certain extent. There are many men out there who think about sex more frequently than most women, but I don’t know that this should be considered a hindrance to or concern in a friendship (I don’t know exactly what you are attempting to imply by *friendship*). As a guy, it feels unfair to be stigmatized that way. If healthy boundaries are there, then it is something that you don’t have to worry about. It is when those boundaries are violated that concern should develop. Remember, the seeds of most affairs are not planted by flames of lust, but the desire for and lack of emotional connection. That goes for both men and women. It isn’t really an “affair” if a guy is going out and cheating on his wife by having casual sex with multiple/random women. That deserves its own designation of category.
I am not denying that men tend to be more sexually driven creatures. We are. But we have the ability to compartmentalize friendships as just that, “friendships.”
I would say that if you are entering into a friendship with a man, and he does certain things that send up red flags, back off and be weary. But I feel it is wrong to stigmatize men as the main source/sex of concern. There are plenty of women out there who have stolen husbands too.
BTW, thanks for the encouraging words, Daniel.
October 11, 2006 at 8:22 am |
I just had to “bloviate” on something that happened this morning. All this talk about luring away or being lured away, what about what makes us stay?
Jen was going to set the alarm to go off early this morning. I’ll leave it to your imagination as to why. Well, she totally forgot. She knew it was important to me. Since we keep slightly different schedules, she woke me from my slumber and told me she forgot and apologized. I told her that I forgave her and I meant it. I felt a little disappointed, but there was no point to carrying on. It wasn’t about to make “it” happen any sooner. I do have a significantly higher drive than she does, so it is important that these things happen, but what good would it have done me to concern myself further with it?
In my tired stupor, I laid there in bed trying to go back to sleep. I couldn’t. My brain decided to fire up and get really busy. I can’t really remember what I was thinking about, but that isn’t really important. I think God was nudging me awake. So, I got up. I put some water to boil, got out the honey, and microwaved some milk. I steeped three bags of chai tea, added the honey and frothed the milk. Putting my concoction together, I took it into Jen, who was in the bathroom with the door closed, with no real clue that I was even out of bed. She was surprised to see me, and even more surprised that I had something for her. She unnecessarily apologized again, and I told her not to. That wasn’t why I was there. I spent a little more time with her and followed her around for the next 10 minutes before she left for work. She really enjoyed the chai latte and it really spoke to her. It is her “love language.”
As she left for work, I watched her leave from the front door. I thought to myself how fortunate I was to be married to her. I consider myself a lucky man. Something not based on sex, but on love. In all the talk we are having about infidelity, we should remember that the solution is a lot more important than the problem. I think I am actually beginning to understand what 1 Corinthians 13 love is.
October 11, 2006 at 4:02 pm |
Awwww, JAred, you are making me miss my hubby – who’s so ill right now.
On minor correction to your post though: I thought to myself how fortunate I was to be married to her.
WAS should = AM so it’s not past tense, ya’ll still are married right?