Benny performed a wedding last weekend and that has had me thinking about marriage lately. Some days ours is wonderful and predictable and some days it sucks and I wonder how we’ll make it to our Golden anniversary. Thankfully MOST days I’m on the wonderful side…or atleast closer to it than the other.
Marriage is really hard work. It isn’t all about love, though that is a major and necessary part of the equation. Marriage isn’t about getting all of your needs met by your chosen mate, though it should be your goal to be meeting the needs of your spouse. If you’re dating someone who isn’t meeting your needs and isn’t interested in working at all to meet them…drop them NOW and RUN! Marriage compounds the problems you have while dating.
Marriage is about commitment. I wonder if most people realize that. When you hear the marriage vows “For richer or poorer…in sickness and health…til death do us part” I wonder if most people really mean it. The words are easy to say when you’re dressed to the nines with the person you love standing by your side in front of a large gathering of all of your friends/relatives and there’s a preacher looking you in the eyes. These words are a little harder to swallow when you’re going through such trials as your mate’s extended unemployment, a serious illness that robs you or your spouse of health and thousands of dollars owed in medical debt, or a spouse that has undergone extreme changes and “outgrown” you and the relationship…or if YOU are that spouse. Commitment seems almost a drudgery then and some people are all about excuses. “I got married too young” or “He’s not the man I married so leaving him really isn’t wrong” or “He’s not providing for our family so I’m not obligated to stay and support him”. I’ve heard them all. My favorite one is “God wants me to be happy right? Since I’m not, I must be married to the wrong person”. I think God is a lot less interested in our happiness and a lot more interested in our holiness…more on that subject in another post.
Benny and I have found ourselves at that crossroads of “Do we stay together or do we jump ship?” many times. Granted it was years ago, but we’ve been there. We have counseled many couples who weren’t sure they would make it. We’ve loved on individuals who didn’t make it. We’ve rejoiced with couples who did. Lots of different things make marriage work, and even those with rocky starts can come out on top. Ours is.
Benny has performed weddings for people who were pregnant, people who were already living together, and people who were being re-married after heart-breaking divorces. There are A LOT of ministers out there who wouldn’t marry these people. My question is WHY? Does this make sense to you? If so, please explain so I can try to understand.
On a side note…Why do churches charge their own members for using the building to get married? That seems so ridiculous to me. Actually, it also seems strange that they charge ANYONE to use their building to get married. I can understand needing to pay the janitor or something, but why are they trying to make a profit off something like that? Is that what churches are supposed to be about? But I digress…
What advice would you give to someone who is struggling through a difficult season of marriage? Would you encourage them to look for the good and try to recapture the days of love? Would you encourage them to give up? Would you encourage them to seek counseling? Would you encourage them at all or would you stay away not knowing what to say?
I’ll have more questions in the next post, but what are your thoughts on these?
October 13, 2006 at 10:49 am |
An older lady at my parents’ church wanted to get re-married. She had been divorced because she just didn’t like her husband anymore.
The elders at the church told her if she re-married they would disfellowship her, and I think I agree with them.
Marrying somebody who is living in sin and is trying to get their life straight is one thing. If a couple is living together and want to legitimize their relationship, I say we should do it.
This lady, on the other hand, knew what the Bible says about divorce and didn’t care. She was trying to please herself, not God.
Is there a difference?
October 13, 2006 at 11:31 am |
I can’t believe I’m actually going to beat Jared at leaving a comment!
This topic is one I’m more comfortable with. I think the key to longevity is commitment and comunication. I know that sounds like a therapist’s answer, but I believe it’s the truth.
I’ve experienced those rough patches on both sides, and commitment coupled with patience and talking about the problems always worked out for us. We also swore to each other before walking down the aisle that the “D” word would never be in our vocabulary, much less an option.
As far as advice to a struggling friend, there is one book that I believe every married couple should read. (I give it to every new bride and groom.) “The Five Love Languages” by Chapman saved our marriage from so many problems before they got the chance to snowball.
October 13, 2006 at 1:01 pm |
Jen and I spent the first three and a half years in the “Shadowlands,” if I might borrow the expression. It was hell. We were both clinically and chronically depressed. We figured out that neither of us got married to the person we dated rather quickly.
I think most people don’t really mean it when they say “For richer or for poor, etc” because they don’t count the cost. like Jesus told us to about following Him. To really mean it, you have to count the cost. I had an idea of what I was stepping into (and at the same time had no idea). I knew there were things that were going to be a total mess in our marriage, but I believed that we could get through them. Things turned out way worse than I ever imagined, but not for different reasons. What I thought would work didn’t, and I found myself in much more trouble than I could have imagined. I could have turned and run, but I didn’t. I knew the cost would be great.
I try not to slap people when they say “God wants me to be happy, right?” If ever anyone muttered a more profane and hedonistic thing, I do not know. I think that is taking God’s name in vain. Think about it…
As far as why pastors won’t perform wedding ceremonies in certain situations, here’s a few thoughts. I don’t know if I could perform a marriage of a person who divorced for any reason other than infidelity. It really would depend on the circumstances, but in some of those situations it seems to say, “Yeah, it’s just fine to make a covenant with God and break it.” I couldn’t give my blessing in such circumstances.
Pregnancy would depend on the situation. Is the guy marrying a gal who is just likely to go sleep around on him, and he’s rushing into it because it seems like the right thing to do? Is the gal marrying a guy who is not likely to stick around for long after the vows are said just because she thinks it is right? In situations such as that, there was never a marriage covenant between the two and it might be better and wiser for the more honorable of the two parties to go their separate way while taking whatever responsibility they can for the child.
You are right, churches shouldn’t charge their members for getting married there. It is ridiculous to do so. If the pastor’s child wouldn’t have to pay, so should everyone else. This wasn’t an issue for Jen and I because we got married at a church we didn’t belong to. We were happy to pay $175 for the entire church (which was fairly large for a small town church) and the pastor.
My advice would always be, “Don’t ever give up. Don’t you ever give up.” Jen and I gave each other every reason to do so. Of our almost 7 years of marriage, only a little more than the last one has been actual “wedded bliss.” The rest stood somewhere between tolerable cruelty/insanity and incredibly horrible. We’ve been through me having serious injuries and off work for months, long periods of unemployment, large medical bills, abuse by church leadership, and many other things. We were “too young” at 18 (me) and barely 20 (Jen) when we got married. If we can suffer greatly at each others’ hands for years and come out of it still married and more in love with each other and God than ever imaginable, just about anyone else can too.
October 14, 2006 at 9:03 am |
Marriage is one of the most profound opportunities for spiritual growth that God has given us. Through relationships we find our weak points, our strengths and come to know ourselves and other people intimately… marriage is an ultimate spiritual test.
Marriage is a context in which we face our greatest fears and can release our deepest issues. Many marriages stay together long after the couple stopped growing together – some out of loyalty, some out of fear of social reprisal, still others “for the children”. But that doesn’t make a great relationship.
I believe that people can be legally married yet sinning before God. Sure, they may ‘follow the rules’ and only be sleeping with each other, but if they are not doing it with the spirit of God in their hearts, they are sinning. If a couple stay together out of fear of social reprisals, I believe that they are sinning – their fear is taking them away from God’s love. I believe that the solution is not for them to use the “D” word, but instead feel called to accept that God’s will for them is to resolve their challenges and realise the love that they can feel towards that other person.
Facing challenges and growing as you move forward is God’s intention for us. We are to face those challenges: Not to run from them.
Marriage is not just about commitment: It is about growth. To me, God’s purpose for us is to grow in our appreciation and love for Him, and one of the mechanisms for fulfilling that purpose is marriage. We cannot break God’s laws, we can only break ourselves against those laws.
Where does the ‘marriage’ begin? Does it start with the ceremony? Or does it really start with a commitment from the heart, for which the ceremony is a formalisation? Some more erudite in such matters than I would suggest that really marriage ceremonies are lovely social institutions, but ultimately are not necessarily required. And, if they are not required, why should you condemn a divorcee?
Likewise, a girlfriend from high school married a guy. At her reception, her own mother referred to the wedding as a “joke”. Some time later, they divorced. They had gone through the ceremony, but they hadn’t really committed themselves. Maybe superficially… but not in their hearts. Where does that place them?
Forgive me for seeing our relationship with God as being more important than any social institution.
My advice: Find a way or make one…
October 15, 2006 at 9:56 pm |
Wow-good discussion! I believe that marriage is all about commitment and growth. I just heard the other day on Christian talk-radio…”What if God didn’t create marriage to make you happy, but to make you holy.” I sat astonished in the car as the implications of that statement began to sink in.
I’m sure there’s alot of truth in that. Being single, I can’t imagine all of the self-sacrifice, love, forgiveness, compromise, confession, communication, and just plain hard work that goes into making a marriage work. I want so badly someday to have not only a marriage that works and is happy, but more importantly one that is godly. Godly marriages take 3.
My parents just celebrated their 28th wedding anniversary. Happy is not the word I would use to describe their marriage. Both of them know that for their marriage to improve they need to make changes and repent, but neither of them are willing. It saddens me that they seem to be ‘okay’ with life as they know it, or their ‘co-existence’ when it could be SO much better if they were willing to put forth more effort. I think this is really a heart issue, not just for their marriage but for their relationship with God. Despite their lack of fullfillment in marriage, my parents have both modeled how important it is to stay committed even when things get rough and are not what you expected.
I confess, it’s so hard for me to have a realistic picture of marriage. Probably won’t happen until I’m married, which will be too late! LOL When Brandon and I decided that we needed to only pursue a friendship until we knew we were ready for a courtship (and God’s will and timing were revealed), we both admitted that marriage still existed in our minds as a ‘dream,’ and that we still have it on that pedastal of “much happier than singleness.” As I pray for God to show me more of what it takes to be a godly wife, He continues to show things to me through other Christian married women that I know and though the countless Christian resources He’s placed in my personal library. One thing that I DO know is that communication, communication, and communication are important. Have learned that the hard way.
Angi, I really want to read that book. It was referenced in Every Woman’s Battle, and I can’t imagine how helpful it is.
I really admire those of you who have gone through some really rough times in your marriages and stuck through them, not looking for the easy way out, but turning to the Lord. It seems that God has honored that.
October 16, 2006 at 8:20 am |
Here’s the difference in someone’s POV of marriage: It is either a commitment or a covenant. A commitment (as I thought mine was) is between 2 people & can be broken. A covenant is a vow including God & can only be broken by Him. I now view marriage as a covenant & will treat it as such.
My husband & I have worked through loss of his job for 4 months while I was staying home w/the kids, large debt (still paying off!), living with in-laws, and my infidelity. God’s love is the ONLY way we’ve survived. His love allows us to be strong when things go bad. His ways are higher than our ways. God calls us to be holy (not always happy.) If only it wouldn’t have taken such stupidity to learn these lessons!!!
October 16, 2006 at 8:18 pm |
I was counseling a woman this summer about this very thing.
Like Jared, I married young (19) and also might say that of the 8 years, only 2 of them have been touched with joy – these last 2, for clarification’s sake!
This woman is older than I but used all of the excuses you mentioned, plus the one of “I wasn’t a Christian when we married – so my vows weren’t with God.” Uh, ok, but you are now, so how can you divorce? “I just don’t have the intimacy with God that YOU do, Heather.” And you never will if you cling to that as an excuse to sin….
I’ll fess up – I’m the anonymous one from the boundaries/needs posts. And, I’m happy to say that God remains true to His Word. Having talked it over with a number of IRL Christian sisters, as well as my hubs, God has strengthened me, and clarified my view. I’m committed to my honey-bunches, and even tonight, we were unified and happy in the midst of balancing our nightmarish checkbook – there’s a first
I totally agree with the words on marriage being a tool to make you holier, and that happier isn’t always part of that equation. Part of this is age and the passage of time, but when I look at where I was with the Lord at 19, and where I am now at 27 – I’m amazed at how the hard times have been refiner’s fire. And now, I sit at 27 with a confidence in my faith and my Lord that some 40 year olds lack. What a blessing!
As for the church charging – it was a non-issue for us in our BUDGET DELUXE wedding, lol. We were members = no charge. I can’t beleive that some would do that – though.
October 17, 2006 at 8:21 am |
Heather, I hear you about the bargain wedding. We got married for about $1500, and that blows most people’s socks off. I know a couple who got married a year to the day before us and spent just about $300. It does happen and it can be done.
If you all will forgive me, I grew up in a small farm town in the Pacific Northwest where things were simple. If you made a commitment, you kept it without question. If you were committed to something, you gave it your all.
Several of you have introduced important concepts about what makes marriage work. I wouldn’t disagree that these well cover aspects of it. But I feel it is important to not over-complicate things. Maybe different strokes for different folks here in the way all of you are expressing things, but if you are committed, you throw your heart into it. You don’t just stick around because leaving would be difficult. That isn’t commitment, that is just plain stupid. I’ll borrow a line from Randy Alcorn’s Purity Principle here: “Godliness is always smart; ungodliness is always stupid.” People who quit investing in the relationship and are just sticking around for whatever reason are acting stupidly. God tells us to do what is good and wise for our own good. It is obvious from the outside in when a couple does this, and it is sad. But, whatever it is, don’t call it commitment. It isn’t. I know because I watched my parents “mail it in” for a great many number of my years at home.
Now, there are times when commitment is just surviving and not leaving. I think Heather would agree. But, if the Lord is pursued and the couple is dilligent to overcome some difficult issues, that time will pass. But that doesn’t mean in that 5 1/2 years of difficulty that neither Jen or I ever pursued improving the relationship. There were just issues that impeded those efforts from having longterm effectiveness.
October 17, 2006 at 9:31 am |
Many Christians – especially here – marry very young. As a 28-year-old single man who has had several long-term relationships, I suppose I have had a few different experiences. I shared many wonderful memories with each of those girls. Part of me wishes that I had married that first girl, yet looking back I am incredibly grateful that each of those relationships ran its course… and ended.
I believe that God gave us marriage to be happy.
In my experience, the reason that marriages aren’t happy comes down to one things: The couple isn’t committed to being happy. It’s not externalities or growing apart or lack of real compatibility. Often because the two came together to ‘use’ each other to fill certain needs rather than to share unconditional love together, something especially common amongst couples who marry before they have an independent sense of self. A great relationship comes from two people who really accept themselves, sharing their love for life, God and the world with each other. If you don’t accept yourself before, you’ll find that you hate in your partner those same things that you most hate about yourself.
You might have every excuse in the world for not being happy. And I’ve probably used it myself. But being happy is a decision – a decision that you are free to make.
To me, a successful marriage is one where you love the person that you are in love with… that said I’m glad that my parents are about to hit 36 years of bliss
Beaner: Great distinction!!!
Sarah: We all repeat the mistakes of our parents until we’re able to break the cycle; in my experience, that only comes when we embrace that which we purport to hate. Watch out
The problems really arise when we build walls around our hearts and sacrifice the intimacy that we need to heal and grow.
October 17, 2006 at 5:58 pm |
I disagree with Daniel’s advice to Sarah. It has been my passionate hate for what I witnessed growing up that has kept my desire for a better marriage burning, especially during the harder years. I watched my parents “mail it in” on a daily basis from when I was very young until I left home. I hated watching it growing up, and I hate every memory of it. It has been what has driven me to go the extra mile in my relationship with my wife. That isn’t to say that I hated my parents, just what I saw them do. In a recent post on my blog entitled “Can Hate Be Something We Don’t Hate,” I asserted that hatred for things that are not good can be a catalyst for positive long-term change in our lives if it spurs us on to be more than that which we hate. Lately, I have fired a passion that has “hated” me right out of a life of depression and mediocrity.
Sarah, if your hate for what is wrong with your parents marriage yields fruit in your life, and in your marriage someday, then embrace the fire that fuels that passion. Let God use it to transform you.
October 18, 2006 at 3:22 pm |
Daniel – We all repeat the mistakes of our parents until we’re able to break the cycle; in my experience, that only comes when we embrace that which we purport to hate. Help me understand this better, please? B/c if by embrace you mean to forgive, I wholeheartedly agree. Breaking the cycle is not just eradicating a behavior, but understanding the circumstances – so you don’t repeat history – and forgiving, on top of change in behavior. But, if by embrace you mean to adopt those behaviors that you “hate” I’m going to have to respectfully, albeit stongly, disagree.
I’m in Jared’s camp in that regard. You see, take mothering for example. I have taken the hate I had for the things my mother did, and used it to fuel the passion for me to get mothering RIGHT. In addition to the supernatural and transforming powers of God, it’s working – to the extent that it can with a flawed mortal being such as myself
But, that understanding and forgiveness is crucial too.
Jared re: budget wedding – we paid:
$300 dress
$80 bridesmaid’s dresses (thank you Foley’s clearance for evening attire)
$210 tux rentals
$200 B&B reservations for the honeymoon (which, actually, hubs’ parents ended up footing as a wedding gift), and;
~$100 for decorations/food
$50 invites/postage, which we printed at home
Everything else was free and/or donated (i.e. cake was a gift from a relative who is in the catering/cake biz, photos were more snapshots than anything)
It’s just ONE day, and why invest so much in the ceremony and so little in the LIFETIME ahead of you, kwim?
October 18, 2006 at 9:12 pm |
Sarah: Jared’s right.
Do whatever works for you. If hatred for ‘mailing it in’ is what inspires you give and share everything to a man who gives and shares everything of himself to you, that’s awesome!
Jared: I said that we repeat the mistakes of our parents until we break the cycle. From what you’ve said, we agree.
In my experience, that only comes from embracing that part of ourselves that we hate so much. That’s not actually open to debate – that’s just my experience! In my experience, when we use hatred to motivate us, we tend to take part of the negativity of that which we hate with us… a part that resurfaces sooner or later. Hatred-driven motivation is not sustainable; it can be a starting point, but it’s only when we have the compassion to love those that have wronged us that we can really consistently move forward.
I find that we hate things in others that we are embarrassed about hiding within ourselves. The antidote (both the means and the ends) is to return to allowing God’s Love to guide us forward… not the dark side of hatred.
But if you want to use hatred anyway and it works for you, that’s great!
October 18, 2006 at 10:29 pm |
I do agree with Daniel that we are only unhappy if we choose to be. I know that my happiness is an inside job for me and I can’t make it someone else’s job (e.g. a husband). However, when I’m really seeking after God, following His will, and being obedient…that is when I’m truly happy. He is the one who fills me up until my cup overflows.
Thank you Jared-I do love my parents dearly, but I’ve hated watching Satan destroy their marriage. They’ve taught me so much more about what NOT to do then what to do, but I’m so grateful for that also. The consequences of sin are so real, and even though it breaks my heart to watch it, God uses it to change my heart and give me more of a passion and awe for His way of doing things. I’m so grateful that His Word speaks right into my life today just as it did to the early Christians, showing me how to live. I’m so grateful that He is sovereign and knows what is best for me-if only I will follow Him and yeild my will to His.
October 19, 2006 at 10:18 am |
“Embracing that which we hate” (ie seek to amend) means, to me, understanding the root causes of the behaviour so that we can stop doing the little things that lead to the big things that we might have so despised. If we just reject the form of the thing that we hate without understanding the underlying nature of that thing, I find that we just find that same thing (that we hate) popping up in a different form or in a different context.
The way to pull out the weed is at the root.
Sarah: I think of it as being called to “Shut up and listen”. It’s hard to let go of our brain/ego’s need for self-importance sometimes, but only when we do, we can embrace God’s Will for us, and allow us to be the vehicles for His manifestation.
October 19, 2006 at 2:32 pm |
I kind of missed this too…
What advice would you give to someone who is struggling through a difficult season of marriage? Would you encourage them to look for the good and try to recapture the days of love? Would you encourage them to give up? Would you encourage them to seek counseling? Would you encourage them at all or would you stay away not knowing what to say?
I would encourage them, refer to counseling, tell them about Dyamic Marriage, and the life changes I’ve been blessed with in the difficult seasons of my own marriage. I would have a heart to heart with them about just what the Bible says about marriage and divorce…and especially Re-marriage – b/c so often people think they’re going to find happiness in someone else. No matter which man you marry, he’s gonna “burp and fart,” as Charlie Brown said on this same matter the other night. Let alone that a remarriage can, depending on circumstances, be seen as adultery and thus, despised by God.